DAY : 1


CHAIRPERSON: To add to the confusion there was a breadown in machinery this morning, involved in producing the copies of the Section 29 Hearing for the parties and that has not yet been concluded. I have had an opportunity of talking to the representatives of the parties and they have told me that they all agree that there is no possibility of this hearing being concluded in the time allowed for it and that they are also of the view, which I share most strongly with them, that it would be preferable to avoid having a part-heard matter. In those circumstances, it was agreed that the matter should be adjourned to a date to be arranged, and I understand that that date has been agreed by the parties, as the 19th to the 21st of June.

But I have certain other suggestions to make and I would like to hear the parties' views as I go along. It seems to me that it might, in the long run, shorten and simplify proceedings if the victims - when I say the victims, I mean of course their representatives and the Evidence Leader for the Committee, supply to the applicant's counsel copies of statements or documents that they propose to rely on, and I suggest that this be done by the 5th of May. Once the applicant has received these documents, he should thereupon prepare the affidavit dealing with his application and the documents - if he agrees with the contentions contained in them, it will of course help to shorten proceedings, and should also supply all copies of all supporting documents that he proposes to rely on, and in my view, this should be done by the 19th of May.

I further think that in an effort to speed up the ultimate hearing of the application, the victims and implicated parties should be allowed to query any of the affidavits or documents that they have problems with, to endeavour to elucidate what is in fact in issue between the parties, and this should be done by the 26th of May. The applicant to reply to any such, by the 2nd of June.

Before I continue with what my other directions are, what is the attitude of the parties to those suggestions?

MR FALCONER: Mr Chairman, if I could kick off. We are in agreement with your suggestions. If I could further suggest, Mr Chairman, just to prevent the situation arising where we end up in a situation where we have further and further statements coming in in dribs and drabs, to be responded to, that if the period of the 5th of May, by which time the victims are to supply their statements, if that could be considered as a cut-off date. This morning I've been furnished with four additional statements and one of my learned colleagues advises me there's another one still to come. Obviously under such circumstances, if we have it on a dribs and drabs basis after the 5th May, it's going to be virtually impossible for me to achieve the desired purpose of furnishing you with a fully comprehensive affidavit.

CHAIRPERSON: Yes, that was the purpose of having dates, that they would. And I think that the victims clearly understood that, that they would be required. I did make provision that they could query matters thereafter if some new matter is raised that they haven't dealt with. So that the purpose of this is that by the time we come to the next hearing, we've put aside all the matters that are not really in dispute. The impression I got, and I think I should here say that I have gained this in part by the desire to co-operate that appears to exist between the legal representatives to dispose of the matter. And that is, I'm quite sure that the fixing of dates is to ensure that everything is done by that date, that things aren't done in dribs and drabs, equally that the applicant puts up all his information by the 2nd of June. First by the 19th of May, and then if there are any other queries or something, they are disposed of by the 2nd. What of the victims?

MR KOOVERJEE: Mr Chairperson, I go along with the suggestion, it will actually expedite the finalisation of this matter.

CHAIRPERSON: Can I also indicate at this stage, that I'm told I will be chairing the Committee that does hear this. I want to put it on record now that I will be available for questions, for discussions, with any of the parties and if there are any problems that arise, I'll be only too happy if they approach me. We can all get together and discuss it over the telephone or fax or things of that nature, but I will be here if you want me.

MR FALCONER: Thank you, Mr Chairman, that's appreciated.

CHAIRPERSON: And finally, I would like to direct that notice be given to all victims, implicated and interested parties of the new of set-down and also that notice be given to all new victims and new implicated or interested parties, of the date of set-down, and such notice to set out a summary of the applicant's case. That is not merely that the applicant is applying for amnesty in respect of this incident, but that the applicant avers that the following happened.

New bundles, I'm told, are being prepared of the Section - sorry no, Section 29 you will be supplied with, and I also understand that one of the Members of my Committee has agreed to co-operate with our Leader of Evidence, to prepare new bundles containing all the necessary documentation for the next hearing.

MS THABETHE: That is so, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: Now I don't know if you want everybody else to return their present bundles to you. I don't think the people who are going to prepare affidavits and other documents, can do so, I think they will need to keep them, but we have returned ours - well my Members of my Committee have. Okay.

MS THABETHE: Thank you, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: And I understand the hearing will be held here and accordingly we will now adjourn till the 19th of June.

And I'm sorry for all of those of you who have had a long day here, hoping to hear something of what happened in the past, but I hope that with the arrangements we have now made, you can consult with your legal advisers, you can raise any problems you have with them and we can clarify everything, so that by the next hearing we proceed smoothly with a hearing of what actually happened, how things happened and what happened to people who may not have been able to report back to you. Thank you all.

MS THABETHE: Mr Chair, can I ask a question quickly?


MS THABETHE: With regard to Section 19(4) notices, should we also supply them to the victims who are present today, or can we take this as proper notice and only inform the new victims?

CHAIRPERSON: I think if you can get a clear record of who is present today and legally represented, it will not be necessary to serve those people with a notice of the new hearing date, but people who are not legally represented or who are not here, should be served. I don't know if you can take a brief roll call. I'm sure you will get assistance. I can see somebody smiling and nodding and I'm sure you'll get assistance as to who is here and duly represented.

MS THABETHE: Thank you.

MR KHUBONI: For the record my name is Welcome Sandile Khuboni, I'm representing Mr Kenneth Siphiwe Hlozi. That is the victim I'm representing in the proceedings. Thank you.

CHAIRPERSON: I don't think you need put it on record now, if she can come and speak after we've adjourned and you can ... because I gather there are quite a few.

MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC: We do not all understand - I'm sorry to say that we do not all understand English. Most of our people do not understand English. I just want to know if the hearing will be conducted in English or Zulu, or else there will be interpreters.

CHAIRPERSON: Well I understood it was being interpreted. The normal practice is that it is interpreted from English into Zulu. So the hearing will be - there will be a Zulu interpretation, or from Afrikaans into Zulu. There will be a Zulu interpretation on the day of the hearing. I didn't realise there wasn't one now.

INTERPRETER: There is one, Mr Chair.

CHAIRPERSON: There is one. I think you've got to turn your speaker onto a different number. I understand it is being interpreted now.

Once again, thank you all.